Wednesday, November 22, 2006

Dion Copies Kennedy, AGAIN

This morning this story 'broke,' Stephane Dion wants to pull out our troops before 2009, and he wants to do it by also engaging with other NATO countries on our withdrawal. For anyone who has kept current of this Leadership Race you'll find Gerard Kennedy came out with this idea not just a week ago, but months ago. Before Stephane Dion, before any Layton idea, Simply put, Gerard Kennedy was the first to call Afghanistan like it is and say the mission is not being effective.

Kennedy's Afghanistan Position can be found on his website in multiple places, Here, a Forum on Afghanistan, and here.

Dion's Afghanistan Position can be found here, the one lone article he just did an interview on.

Kennedy's Afghanistan Position:
"Liberal leadership candidate Gerard Kennedy today called for Canada to push NATO to re-evaluate what amounts to a losing strategy in Afghanistan and for Prime Minister Harper to address the shortfall in aid development.

"If NATO fails to change their strategy, Canada should pull out of the war in Afghanistan," Kennedy told Ontario Young Liberals as part of the Young Liberal Summer Speakers Series at Ryerson University last night."

Dion's Afghanistan Position:
"Liberal leadership contender Stephane Dion says Canada should withdraw its troops ''with honour'' from Afghanistan before 2009 because their current mission is ill-conceived and misguided."

Kennedy's Afghanistan Position:
"In August, I called for a re-evaluation of what amounts to a long term losing strategy in Afghanistan, changing into one that would be a proper mandate for our armed services, the Afghani people and Canadian principles. If NATO fails to change the strategy, Canada should pull out of the war in Afghanistan...."The only way we can justify staying in Afghanistan is if we can create a mandate for real success.""

Dion's Afghanistan Position:
"In an interview with CanWest News Service, Dion said the current military mission is not making progress. But he quickly added any pull-out of troops would only occur after discussions with the other NATO countries involved in the military mission."

Kennedy's Afghanistan Position:

"In August, I called for a re-evaluation of what amounts to a long term losing strategy in Afghanistan, changing into one that would be a proper mandate for our armed services, the Afghani people and Canadian principles. If NATO fails to change the strategy, Canada should pull out of the war in Afghanistan."

"Kennedy noted that Canada has a role to play in marshalling other NATO countries to call for a winning plan in Afghanistan. "Sustainable peace cannot be achieved by military operations alone. The international coalition should focus on the immediate and long-term economic needs of the local communities, and any use of force should be balanced with extensive, visible and effective development efforts," he said."

Dion's Afghanistan Position:
''Canada must say: 'Look, we are very willing to work with you, to design something that makes sense, because I don't want to risk the life of our soldiers if we are not making progress','' said Dion.

Kennedy's Afghanistan Position:
Loss of life, lack of progress and no end in sight weigh heavily on our national conscience. By focusing solely on the military objectives in Afghanistan, Prime Minister Harper is making the same mistakes that the Bush administration made in Iraq and it will lead to similar long-term failure.

Dion's Afghanistan Position:
''We need to involve the other nations much more. It is really sad what happened because Mr. harper last spring played the macho the one who will be able to carry us out of Afghanistan. He copied the speeches of Mr. Bush, I think President Bush should request copyright from these speeches,'' said Dion.

Kennedy's Afghanistan Position:
It is now clear, Afghanistan faces three interlinked crises: an opium crisis, a development crisis and a security crisis. The international community and the Afghani people must deal with the opium and development crises before lasting security can become reality.

Last year's crop was worth $2.7 billion at export, or 52 per cent of the GDP, representing a 20 per cent increase in poppy planting and a record for the biggest crop in Afghanistan's history, according to the United Nations.
Revenues from opium crops fund the Taliban's operations against international forces. Additionally, without economic alternatives the allegiance of local populations shifts support away from the international community and towards Taliban insurgent factions that capitalize on growing economic desperation.
The biggest failure in Afghanistan to date has been the way the international community has alienated the Afghani people.

Dion's Afghanistan Position:
''You have the Taliban, you have warlords, it is a complex situation. E and we need to work with the other nations to see if we can create a type of Marshall Plan like the one for Europe after the Second World War to be sure that the poppy can be used for licit activities. Otherwise I think it is very very difficult to make progress,'' said Dion.

Now perhaps Kennedy should request copyright from Dion's speeches. Not only that but Dion's position is but a shallow pool compared to the ocean of facts and evidence supporting Gerard Kennedy's position. I advise all to read Gerard Kennedy's website for further details.

Prior to this copying of Kennedy Dion has done it before. In regards to the Canadian Wheat Board, Stephane Dion copied Gerard's stance identically as noted in a previous post here, about nine posts down.


Blogger A BCer in Toronto said...

I hear Dion also copied Kennedy's love of puppies. Gerard loved puppies first. What a bastard!!!

8:20 AM  
Blogger Daniel Mosely said...

That's giving a straw-man argument. You could have just said Dion was copying Kennedy's love for air or water. When it comes to specific policies, people should have different opinions unless they are following someone else's lead.

8:24 AM  
Anonymous MississaugaPeter said...

What is most important is that fellow Liberal, Stephane Dion, agrees with Gerard.

The more Liberals united on important issues the better. If they are Top 4 leadership candidates, then even better.

8:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Highly critical of the mission, Dion's position seems to differentiate himself form the other three frontrunners Michael Ignatieff, Bob Rae and Gerard Kennedy in the Liberal leadership race."

The article actually says the opposite.
If this is true, and you seem to believe it is, then great! You will have little problem supporting KenneDion.

What our Party needs now is unity. Not further divisions.

8:35 AM  
Blogger A BCer in Toronto said...

Specific policies like what, that our Afghanistan isn't working and if it can't be made to work we should leave? Are you honestly going to tell me Gerard is the first person to ever voice that opinion? And that, now, no one can ever voice a similar opinion?

8:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It would appear that there are a lot of synergies between these two campaigns.

8:56 AM  
Blogger Daniel Mosely said...

miss-peter: Fact is Dion copied Kennedy. Yes Dion agreed with Kennedy, but where is any type of leadership on Dion's part?

Westmount: I present evidence to the contrary. To counter my evidence you give me a quote that has no support or evidence to support it. So either argue or don't, don't be a parrot.

Further if you see my previous post you'll see Dion likes to test the waters. This is just another instance of Dion seeing how successful Kennedy is and jumping on board.

8:57 AM  
Blogger Daniel Mosely said...

BCer in Toronto here is what CTV reported on Dion's position on Afghanistan on Sept 29th:

"While he characterized as irresponsible the NDP call to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan, Dion has also questioned the current definition of the Canadian mission.

Dion, the Liberal foreign affairs critic, said he voted against the "take-it-or-leave it" motion to extend Canada's commitment in Afghanistan for two years. He said Harper failed to provide an opportunity for a proper debate format prior to the vote.

"I think the prime minister is trying to create a perception that the Liberal party opposes the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. Nothing could be further from the truth," he said.

"I was a minister in the government that sent the troops to Afghanistan. I continue to support them very strongly, and would support extending our mission in consultation with our NATO partners.""
Overall this insinuates Dion was leaning on extending the mission, not shortening it. Therefore this shows Dion changed his position.

Second, specific policies not only of withdrawing but the point by point analysis I gave. Such as discussing this with NATO, reference to Harper like Bush with Afghanistan and Iraq, Opium as a major problem, making the mission more effective.

Like come on, effective? That's Kennedy's catch-phrase. I'm not saying anyone who uses it is copying Kennedy, but such an obvious copy of Kennedy is outstanding.

9:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Daniel - I was mearly pointing out that your position is the exact opposite of the fine writer who published this piece. I suggest you take up your argument with them and ask for clarification or a retraction.
What pleases me however with your argument is that you, along with many other Kennedy supporters, are seeing similiarities with Dion. This is called moving towards a unified position, leader and Party.
It's a shame you were not in Montreal last night when GK spoke.
Renewal and unity was his focus as opposed to attacking or comparing himself against other candidates.
This is the characteristic of a TRUE leader.

Westmount Lib
- aka the parrot

9:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i guess your whip has yet to call you and tell you that dion is your candidate if gererd drops!

9:14 AM  
Blogger Daniel Mosely said...

Anonymous or I'll call you by your blogger name westmountliberal my whip has said nothing of the kind. I know the National director and there is no such advocation. It's so obvious anonymous is Westmount just go to his site and you'll see the same anonymous comment almost word for word.

Now let me make something clear I'm not Gerard Kennedy. So your comment "Renewal and unity was his focus as opposed to attacking or comparing himself against other candidates.
This is the characteristic of a TRUE leader." makes no sense.

Secondly, I don't have to offer a retraction, I have proof, what do you have? A quote. A quote from an opinion from a reporter. Well you know reporters have a lot of opinions right? (whispers: That doesn't mean they're true)

It must hurt when you candidate follows huh?

As for candidates attacking each other, Gerard hasn't attacked anyone, Dion on the other hand.....

Well you can grab some popcorn and watch them yourself:

9:26 AM  
Blogger Daniel Mosely said...

Even a Stephane Dion Blogger agrees, you can see her post here:

9:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all, why did it take Dion this long to provide a view on Afghanistan?? Anybody can sit back and watch the world go by and see what the other candidates said months ago. That is not leadership.

Secondly, Dion's position of a pull-out is irresponsible. Kennedy does not advocate a pull-out, only if the mandate is not changed.

9:58 AM  
Blogger calgarygrit said...

Well, good on Stephane for recognizing Gerard has a good policy on Afghanistan and adopting it himself. Hopefully more people will come around to this way of thinking too.

10:08 AM  
Blogger A BCer in Toronto said...

Daniel, are you familiar with Bob Rae's positions and comments on Afghanistan? Because he was saying many of these same things before Gerard came out with his position. Therefore, by your logic, Gerard copied Bob.

10:08 AM  
Blogger petroom said...

From the interviews that I've watched, Dion has consistently said the following all Fall:

1) Harper forced the extension on parliament

2) Dion wants a proper debate to set the scope of the mission

3) Dion supports a mission that is building Afghan society.

I never looked up the details on his campaign page but he wasn't quiet on the issue. Perhaps he's filling in more details now, to Kennedy's credit if he did more work on the topic.

But then, if Dion was foreign affairs critic at the time, one assumes that he had ideas and staff to work on them with.

10:17 AM  
Blogger Daniel Mosely said...

BCer- Give me any shred of evidence of Bob Rae's words prior to Kennedy's and I'll full heartedly agree that Kennedy copied Rae. But I seriously doubt that because I've been following this race quite obcessivly.

10:19 AM  
Blogger Daniel Mosely said...

Petroom- those points do not entail the position Dion outlines now. And as I've already commented CTV reported just as of Sept. 29 that Dion was actually looking at extending the mission.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Daniel -
It is true. You are no Gerard Kennedy.
His focus is on Party unity - as is mine.

You however seem content on focusing on the negatives of a common stance by Kennedy/Dion.

Other Dion/Kennedy supporters may feel the same way and that too is their prerogative.

I once again ask you to take up your difference of opinion with the journalist you quote.

Out of freedom of expression I do not enable comment moderation.

I am not a parrot.
I am not an anon.
I am, and always will be, a Westmount Liberal.

11:18 AM  
Blogger Daniel Mosely said...

Mine is not a difference of opinion but of fact. I present evidence, you and the reporter do not. That is the difference between fact and opinion.

I enable comment moderation because I do not like other posting their blogs on my blog. I allow for free speech in regard to commenting constructively to my blog. Most of all I only publish people who actually read my blog and my comments. You are disregarding many of points because you can't argue against them.

12:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey guys, there's another English person about, :)
I'm a new on
looking forward to speaking to you guys soon

2:14 PM  

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